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Hey everyone,

I was wondering if anyone might have some assistance related to having clarity with family emotions.

I have been listening to Jesus and Mary's material for about 4.5 years (more seriously for about the last 3.5), and not quite 2.5 years ago, I introduced it to my mom who has been listening to it intently since then. I am not sure how much detail to provide as I don't want to make people read a post that is unnecessarily wrong, but I can certainly provide more if needed. Basically in the last couple years, it has felt like my mom and I have "grown farther apart". I feel it's more that we had an addictive relationship before, though I don't think she agrees with that.

Mainly my question is about the fact that I feel like I oscillate between feeling like, "I really do understand what's going on here emotionally with us" all the way to, "What if I'm completely wrong about all of this and what she's saying is the truth?" We both listen to the same divine truth material and yet have night-and-day versions of what is happening between us and where we both are emotionally. I am having a hard time feeling the truth about it; I'm trying to be conscious of any anger and blame from me towards her, and at the same time keeping in mind some of the feedback I've received about some issues I've had with pleasing women; it all makes me feel kind of paralyzed.

I was wondering if anyone had some insight into how to get to the place of confusion I'm in and into truth instead?

Thanks,
Courtney

whoops typo, meant to say, "unnecessarily long"

Hi Courtney,

I had a similar experience, except it was my sister who introduced me to Divine Truth six years ago.

While there hasn't been a lot that we have discussed about our relationship, we have discussed our parents. Initially our perceptions were Night and Day - she felt more terror of our dad and love for our mum and for me it was the other way around (anger - and now I would say terror - at mum). There are nine years between us (she is older than me) and initially I put it down to perhaps dad growing more loving in that time and mum more angry, but I don't think that is the case... writing this I am feeling that perhaps I was closer to dad as I was the youngest daughter and somehow his favourite (which could be just an intellectual conclusion based on data I have received from siblings and others - I still have not much recollection about my childhood).

What it actually did teach me was how two people can share the same (similar) experience and have wildly different perceptions of it based on their own filtering/emotional makeup/injuries. I don't want to dive into a "She's wrong, I'm right" or the other way around thing, so I feel what is best to do when this comes up (it hasn't in a fair while as we haven't had much interaction at all this past year) is to feel how I feel about it - a lesson I am slowly understanding emotionally - focus on how I am feeling right at that moment, and reflect on that - that is what the law of attraction is bringing me. I can only change myself.

love,
Teresa

Hi Courtney

Mainly my question is about the fact that I feel like I oscillate between feeling like, "I really do understand what's going on here emotionally with us" all the way to, "What if I'm completely wrong about all of this and what she's saying is the truth?

I can so relate to that.
My mother doesn't watch any DT videos and I have not even tried to share divine truth with her as she is totally closed off, so it's a different scenario. However my mother still denies everything I pointed out to her as unloving behavior, and this makes me doubt my perceptions at times as well.

The truth is so that she has harmed me and that my life has been affected by that in very negative ways.
I have not seen my mother for 2 years now, even so I live in the same city now, as I felt a lot and still feel a lot of anger towards her.
Feelings of guilt keep coming back as well and than this fear of 'what if I am completely wrong about all this' creeps up too, and I feel bad about not seeing and spending time with her.

In these moments of doubt I sometimes remember to ask God to please show me the truth and often through the law of attraction I receive information, get triggered, or feel attracted to watch a DT video which seems to be spot on, confirming, that yes, the truth is, my mother has treated me very badly and without love and the anger I feel has the right to be there.

For me being not in touch with my mother has allowed me to disconnect from her a bit. I still feeling subconsciously very entangled with her. It feels like she is a big spider sitting on top of me at times, has woven a net around me, and I am struggeling to get rid of her now.
This is triggering all sort of emotions, with mainly anger and disgust toward her and also doubt ( I might be completely wrong).

It wasn't and isn't easy to not be in touch with her, esp. As she keeps calling, pretending nothing has happened. I had to be quiet clear to inform her about my boundaries and that I do not want to be in touch with her as I need space for myself and do not want to see and be in touch with her.

Watching the DT assistant group videos on repentance and forgivines helps me and reminds me that yes my mother harmed me in many ways and that it is he truth.

I hope that through Gods help I can feel all the anger soon and also can handle the core wound feelings of terror and deep sadness.

Hi Courtney

I feel I may be able to offer you some insight based on my own similar experiences (the only difference is that I felt confused and went into doubt about things and myself when addressing women with truth - especially those who have anger/rage towards men). You appear to have this same injury but with women who have anger towards other women.

If you remember all the way back to the beginning of the forum on the thread where you introduced yourself...I pointed out some co-dependancy between yourself and Victoria and then I quickly back tracked on my initial post due to feeling extremely confused and doubting my own gut feelings about the situation. Jesus gave me some awesome feedback and highlighted why I did this and it was due to my own addictions with women (placating, wanting myself to appear kind, soft and gentle so I feel like I am a "good boy" who understands them) and in return, women gained feelings of power, superiority and control over me.

The reason I back tracked was because of the impending threat I felt at a soul level at the potential of receiving anger, condescension etc if I stood up for the truth of the situation from such women. Due to that threat, it made me go into this really terrible place of confusion and doubt. Jesus advised that I should trust myself and my gut instincts going forward from that point onwards, which I have done even though it was incredibly difficult to do!

I'd suggest the times where you feel clear about things is probably closer to God's Truth of the situation and the times where you go into doubt and confusion is where you are in a situation whereby your soul feels it is in danger of receiving projections of attack (anger, rage, condescension etc) from your mum.

It still shows you are open to these projections and therefore must mean you still have some addictions at wanting to please such women. What really worked for me was seeing how damaging my own addictions were towards these angry women (how I was basically reinforcing their anger and demands and making the situation worse for themselves and any other men in the future whom they may interact with who are open to this) and also realising how open I am to such attacks and letting myself grieve the sadness I felt at the oppression.....which was basically do what they wanted me to do or I'd be in big trouble (anger, withdrawal of love etc).

Here you wrote:

I'm trying to be conscious of any anger and blame from me towards her, and at the same time keeping in mind some of the feedback I've received about some issues I've had with pleasing women; it all makes me feel kind of paralyzed.

Although your are self reflecting upon your own feelings and what may be going on within yourself, which is great, I don't feel you are looking at it from your mother's perspective and the emotions that are coming out of her towards you - and this is where the confusion and doubt is coming from I reckon (as I discussed above). I get the feeling that although your Mum has been open to watching DT vids etc, she is pretty resistive and in facade at a soul level in wanting to see her true condition at present and that is why she is disagreeing with you about growing apart. She basically still wants this control and hold over you at an emotional level and anytime you challenge her on such matters, she will most probably revert to anger, condescension and/or manipulation techniques in an attempt to shut you down so that she still gets these power and superiority emotions from your exchanges.

I really hope that may help you Courtney. Good luck with the emotions

Nicky

Thanks everyone for your sharing, I appreciate it. Felicitas, I think you're right about how we can still be really entangled in the web even if not in regular touch with our parent(s) and still acting out those injuries daily if the emotional processing hasn't happened. I have been in touch with my mom less this year than ever before but it hasn't necessarily changed how I act out those unhealed emotions.

Nicky thanks for your feedback upon my arrival to the forum as well as now. The way I was speaking with Victoria in that first exchange was exactly the dynamic I had with my mom most of my life; it was pretty fake and pleasing, for sure. It was a unique way to arrive into the forum to be sure, but it was such needed truth. Now I am not conversing in that way so obliviously with women but there is still a lot of self-doubt when I attempt to challenge them, most especially my mom.

When I was reading your recent update about how you feel the forum is going, I felt like I could relate to some of the self-doubt you were describing, so it's really helpful to hear from you; I can really identify with what you shared above as far as the nuances of emotions and progression of the reaction when I'm in this space.

I think for me it's simultaneously fear of the attack and anger from my mom and other women as well as still at times believing that what they say about me--basically that I'm acting terribly and severely hurting them--might be true, or fearing it might be true. I don't always feel like it's true; but I swing from one side to the other a lot. I am realizing that through my filters of co-dependent addiction, self-punishment (more addiction), and terror with women, I have really skewed beliefs emotionally about what arrogance, delusion, humility, and love are in this context. It's like I'm desperately trying to avoid being arrogant and lacking humility in my relationship with my mom, but I'm ending up using those ideas to stay in self-punishment, suppress grief, and inadvertently am ending up being unloving and not humble to God's truth, etc., in all these other ways.

I can feel you're right about the need for me to "grieve the sadness I felt at the oppression" in order to get more clear about the truth. I am also hoping doing that will help me not believe so readily that I'm bad. As I'm finishing this post I am getting a bit of a headache--and I never get headaches--so I think I probably need to go see if I can allow myself to cry.

Thanks again everyone.

Hey to all who are interested in this thread,

Firstly I just want to say in regards to Courtney’s comment on feeling ‘bad’ and self attacking, that someone taught/reinforced to you to feel ‘bad’ so that you took on the issue and blame rather than them taking responsibility for their own feelings.

The problem for those of us who have taken on self punishment and believing the negative messages we were brainwashed with as children, is that as adults we often engage these in an addictive way to avoid feeling feelings we have and/or feeling about the projections from others. It is a way we believe is ‘safer’ but I am noticing it is actually really dangerous and reinforces the nasty behaviour of those who engage it because we are in agreement with it and instead of standing up and saying ‘no this is wrong and you are treating me badly’ and feeling how that feels we ‘agree’ emotionally with the harm being done.

Nicky gave great feedback about this and God’s Truth on the situation which was really helpful! I love the clarity you have Nicky, Thanks!

I found a post you (Courtney) had made were Jesus wrote you a letter that you shared part of it. I thought it might be worth revisiting! It was really helpful and I feel applies to your question on this part of the forum.

link to it below:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=344

Re: Fear of women's anger

Quote

Post by Courtney » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:23 am
Thanks for both of your sharing on this thread, David and Nicky. I have a lot of fear of women's anger and issues with placating them also. I've been grateful for the reflection of that in this forum; it started a snowball of perhaps the biggest thing I've been focusing on since then. Mainly for me it is about seeing how it is a sin, as you pointed out Nicky. Jesus generously emailed me recently with the following truth and I thought I'd share it on this thread in case it helps either of you or anyone else on the forum:

"Let yourself examine why you need the approval and acceptance of women who desire power and control over others. This gives them power over your life, and therefore power over your thoughts and actions, and their poor spiritual condition is also imposed upon you, which means that you do the bidding of people who are in a darker condition than yourself, thereby darkening your own condition spiritually.

Remember that besides receiving God's Love, a person who wishes to become at-one with God also needs to learn the lessons of Natural Love, which includes having God's understanding of ethics and morality. Wanting the approval and acceptance of people who desire power and control is not ethical or moral, and is driven by deep fears of attack from others and self-judgement. In your own case it also supports a woman's immoral desire for power over others (including power over yourself), and you are naturally attracted to these kinds of women by your fear and self-judgement.

If you can recognize your fear of attack from women, and what that makes you feel, and also your own tendency towards self-judgement, and who has judged you in the past to make you feel poorly about yourself, then you will go along way towards receiving more of God's Love, along with having a life that does not attract destructive women into your life."

I have always felt being this way is nice and standing up strongly to people is mean and awful, and so educating myself about how I am sinning--and immoral and unethical--when I placate and have fear feels like the very first thing I have to do to move forward. I am only just starting to see the implications and gravity of how destructive it is to SO many parties and the ripple effect of damage it does when I seek approval from women and placate them, even to people who aren't "in the room" when the addictive exchange occurs between me and them. And of course there has to be just a huge iceberg of denied emotion underneath this addiction.

A great quote by Jesus on Confusion from

The Human Soul: Ethics and Morality P1 (&P2) that Jesus gave 13th May 2012

p.11of the self print book (Part 1):

"2.4.1. Confusion is a result of not wanting to understand what is in our souls

... Confusion.. results from fear and a desire to not understand coming from the soul on the actual issue. [00:20:21:29]

Love is logical. Since it is logical, it can never result in confusion without there being some kind of opposition in the soul to love, and so we need to understand that every time we feel an intellectual difficulty in understanding something, that it begins with an emotional difficulty in understanding the same thing... "

Reading your question Courtney felt so similar to fears I have had (still have with particular types of people) in dealing with people who may become potentially violent with me (real or perceived). The self doubt and looking at how what they are doing is loving rather than feeling my own real feelings about it and learning to honour and feel through those in order to find the Truth of the situation.

It felt to me that you are doubting yourself with a tendency to want to believe others on certain issues rather than trust what you feel. I feel you are afraid of upsetting your mum or women with a tendency to attack, by disagreeing with them. I felt your worry about being ‘completely wrong’ is a way to avoid honouring your real feelings and a way to avoid the possibility of real or perceived, conflict.

I feel that Nicky’s feed back about the relationship with your mum was spot on. I feel the facade your mum is presenting, is what you want to believe rather than feeling the Truth and feeling the real feelings from your mum and your own grief (and other feelings) about your mum. I feel it is really important to feel about these things and find out through your own experience what is really going on.

I would look closely at the areas where you have the confusion and feel about them and see if you do actually have some feelings on the issues and you are afraid to be honest with yourself about them, or if you genuinely just have ‘no clue’ what-so-ever. I have found I have often been afraid to admit the real feelings I have, because then I can no longer pretend to myself that what is going on is different to what I want to believe.

You mentioned that you have issues with pleasing women (I have issues in this area also), and I was wondering if you have challenged the issues you have been told about in regards to pleasing women?

Some things I find helpful in dealing with my own issues are as follows (this feels like a note to self post, smile):

• 1. Experimenting with being totally honest about everything in every interaction with everyone. If you have done this, how has this felt and what has happened? (you don’t have to answer here, it is more for self reflection) If you continue to do this, eventually (mostly VERY quickly) the facades and addictions are exposed along with all the feelings we need to feel about these attractions. For me when I was completely honest with my parents their subsequent actions told me exactly how they felt and I couldn’t pretend it was different as it was so blatantly nasty. It didn’t feel great, but it was a relief to see that their actions actually matched my feelings and confirmed them when I was truthful. While I was constantly placating them and blaming myself I often felt confused because what they said and what I felt from them were two totally different things. This has happened with other women in my life also.
  
  2. The lovely thing about beginning to confront my fears of being attacked (in certain situations, more to go on this for me) is that it has opened up new relationships that are the beginnings of real friendships based on Truth and Love and I feel so grateful for the gifts as the contrast is so great between the treatment that it brings up feelings in a more loving way rather than being attacked all the time and I can now trust various people in my life for real.
  
  3. When it comes down to it, what really matters is God’s Truth on any given issue and finding out what we feel about that same issue and bringing it into harmony with God’s Truth and God’s view of Love in all the places that we are out of harmony with Love and Truth. (This is my favourite reminder).
  
  4.You can experiment with what the Truth is on any given subject/issue, and instead of ‘worrying’ about it I suggest trying various things out, observing the Law of Attraction and be humble to feeling all the feelings that come up as this will be the way you work out what is really going on, particularly if I ‘have no clue’. Feeling is key in this process.
  
  5. In my experience the fastest way to get the truth and find out what is really going on is to be totally Honest and Truthful in every interaction ALL of the time and remain open and feeling. Honour principles of God’s Truth all the time and say (and feel) how you feel and what you really feel all of the time, both to yourself and to others (in a loving manner). As Jesus has said to me: ‘It takes one thing - courage’ - A quality totally worth developing I reckon (I am needing to work on this myself).

I have found being Truthful with self and others to be awesome (scary and challenging at times, due to it exposing emotions I have wanted to avoid). It can feel very confronting and in my experience brings up all the error really fast. It also builds faith, as even when things are ‘hard’ or challenging there is a relief in having been truthful and totally transparent and ironically I find I feel heaps better about myself, even if I have been in error and got it totally ‘wrong’ I still honoured myself and found out the truth of where I am at in this moment.

The Truth is always worth knowing, I reckon, even if we don’t like what we find out, because we at least have the opportunity to see ourselves more honestly and then have the opportunity to change. It also creates the space for the truth to be observed in others by the way they react and if both parties desire to be loving and truthful in all interactions it is awesome because it brings you closer and ‘real’ relationships based on Love and Truth can begin to grow.

I feel we need learn to honour and trust our own feelings and feel our own feelings rather than being worried and invested in others (big addiction I have personally). I feel you need to feel how you feel about what is going on with your mum and be honest about it with yourself.

My sincere encouragement to you with unravelling with your mum (and Dad) and honouring your real self!

Eloisa

Hi Courtney

Just a bit of background I had a lot of encouragement and allowance of feeling badly of and about men in my childhood and to see mum as a helpless victim who wasn't capable of looking after herself and did the best she could - those are some of the feelings I carry but to help break open what really might have been going on I've found it useful to start pondering my feelings/beliefs about God and what God feels about me because we did see our parents as God and those feelings can be revealing about what we really felt from our parents and not what they were saying or wanted us to believe. It is hard but as I had an absent Dad it's probably easier in my case that the feelings can be attributed more to mum and harder because any bad or negative feelings I have towards mum are really going to get me in trouble or result in me being left completely out in the cold.

Here are a few examples of what my feelings tell me about "God":

God doesn't care about me
God has no time for me
God has no interest in my life
God feels I was a mistake she wishes she had never made
God has favourites and its not me
God has no love for me
God is harsh and uncaring
God wishes I would go away and leave her alone
God feels I'm annoying
God doesn't want to answer my questions
God isn't interested in me but wants things from me NOW!
God will take over my life with her worries
My job is to look after God

I'm not saying they will all be attributable to Mum but it does feel less threatening and so easier to be honest about feelings towards God and then ask the question of where did these feelings that I have come from?

Thanks Eloisa and Amanda for your replies, I appreciate everyone on this chain offering assistance and food for feeling; it’s really nice of you all.

Eloisa, thanks for your feedback as well as your tips on how to proceed with experimenting and for reflection too. I have seen you on many videos (thank you for your openness) and I have felt how I have some of the same emotions you’ve had; I’ve gotten emotional watching you talk about some of yours about self-punishment, people really disliking you, etc. Your letters to your family that you posted on a blog have been helpful to me—I think I’d also benefit from revisiting those now.

When Jesus emailed me that feedback a couple months ago about women, I somehow wanted to believe it didn't go back to my mom, and since Jesus didn’t explicitly mention my mom I used that to avoid the truth for a couple weeks. But my mom was a stay-at-home mom, and I had no other women who were around or lived near us, no sisters, no nanny, no regular babysitters, etc. And I don’t recall any big trauma from any female elementary school teachers, so the truth is it must mostly go back to my mom, really.

I do have fear of being honest about everything, to everyone. Compared to the utter doormat and expert people-pleaser I used to be, I have made a lot of progress, but I still am willing to compromise honesty with certain kinds of people. In the past couple years I have been more honest overall, and have received pretty brutal attack from extended family members (both men and women, though mostly women). I’ve also been a great deal more honest with my mom in the last couple years, and I feel that she (and I feel even now a tad of fear writing this) uses Divine Truth teachings to spin things in a manipulative way that basically boils down to that I’m wrong in all my assessments of what’s happening between us, as well as how I feel she treated me in the past and still treats me, that she has the truth about it and not me, and that I’m being very unloving to her. I think she listens to the DLP material even more often than I do, and that has made me question myself more.

I am afraid to feel what my mom is currently projecting at me, and also what would happen if I was even more honest with her than I have been. I definitely identify with the “good girl” version of the “good boy” emotions Nicky was describing earlier. I know in general with being honest with everyone all the time, I’m avoiding how I’ll feel if I face how many people I suspect will truly hate me if I’m honest. Whether that’s real or imagined, I feel like being myself fully and being honest, and being forthright with everything I believe will result in people who literally hate, despise, wish ill upon me… all that feels terrifying right now. By the way, thanks Eloisa for that confusion quote from Jesus; I hadn’t heard that one before and I think it will stick with me.

I also think you’re right in that I do know what’s really going on most of the time with my Mom, but am afraid of further attack and also of the pain of acknowledging the truth. I am afraid of feeling what is there, which like “Wow, so my parents had me for a lot of the wrong reasons, and then raised me to fulfill their addictions, imposed massive amounts of control and anger and fear on me, intentionally created addictions, exploited me and controlled me in various ways, suppressed who I really am, didn’t care much what I felt or wanted, and actively taught me to feel like a terrible person if I ever questioned them, and still to this day don’t want to have a loving relationship or have any truth… can it really true there was so little love there? Is it really possible they care for me that little?” It’s an awful feeling. I’ve always felt my emotions in my body really strongly and this level of pain and grief often feels like it’s going to implode me physically from the inside out.

There is also a fear of loss of my biological family. My brothers and my Mom’s husband agree with her about me to varying degrees, and so I have not worked through the fear and grief that facing the truth about my mom, and subsequently treating myself lovingly in regards to her will mean not that I lose 1 family member, but that I will lose 4—the stakes feel very high. Without going into a whole other story, my dad is even more overtly unloving than my mom (and I think I've worked through more "dad stuff" than "mom stuff" so far), and so as it is I already can’t be loving to myself and have a relationship with him or his wife, and by extension my half-sister. I’ve realized that despite how many times I’ve heard the truth that Jesus and Mary share which is that biological family are no more family than anyone else in the world, and that intellectually it makes so much sense, emotionally I do not yet have that truth in my soul yet. I have unresolved feelings of being alone, lonely, with no one left.

At this point more than strangers, friends, extended family, siblings, or my dad, my mom is the one I go into the self-doubt and self-punishment patterns the most with, by far. So I do know working through these addictions and emotions with her and with other women is going to help me grow a lot. I also know it will help me with soul-mate emotions as I feel I’m a gay half of a soul, and it’ll help me feel more connected to the feminine side of God. At present I know I’m projecting that She is like my mom and I typically feel more connected to the masculine side of God.

So anyway, thank you all for your gifts of feedback and food for feeling.

Courtney